It's these rating companies that try to show developers how to strike lightning twice. Companies like Nelson ratings will tell you what people from 10 to 20 years of age really like in a game. Making game companies try to hit that target over and over by making the same thing.

My favorite prart:
And they pay millions of dollars to teams of programmers (like my friend who's part of one) to try and improve the statistics system.... "Screw spending millions on small indignant game developers with new ideas. Lets loose billions so we don't have to feel like we take risks..., It looks better when we want a bank loan anyway". I'm surprised Portal didn't have a car chase.

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Sigh

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Sorry. yeah. A bit off topic...

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Not really man, I was just bummed out by suckey game studio's. If I had a crap ton of cash I would develop a game and then give it out on a donation basis to avoid censors and all that marketing bs. You could make a game the way you wanted with no constraints and it would be quite likely that people would love it and pay you.

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That is very true. My friends back in my home town have projects that I would like to sponsor someday. But they'll have to wait until I can really start earning money. Of course they don't do it for the money.

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Yea I have worked on a few games in the past and it always fall over because we never have the time. Money gives you time.

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Been in that boat. That's for sure.

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I have to say but what you have read you OBVIOUSLY havent finished the game at all, some of your points become un-valid when the plot un-folds, would you kindly.The story line was horribly predictable and seemed like a lame cop out for why you dont really get any choice of what to do in the game and might aswell be on rails. BUt I can see how people would like the story line, just because I have a crazy assed way of figuring out plots in movies/games doesnt mean everyone does lol.

I have to say though im happy im not the only person who wasnt head over heels with bioshock, but I think that has more to do with the fact I played system shock 2 and liked that piles more, the only thing this game carbon copies is from systemshock 2, but as it is the same developers (though be it merge with carious other developers) I think they have a right to it. I read it was going to be called system shock3: bioscock, but the title system shock is still owned by someone so they had legal issues and had to change it. BUt even if I hadent played SS2, I dont know, im not sure I could get as excited as everyone is about it...

I dont see how you can put bioshock in with those FPS titles though, it is vastly different to doom 3, COD and halflife games in the mechanics of how the games and enemys work. It has alot of RPG elements that arnt seen in your regular FPS, but also how the enemys are weak, or strong to cetain elements so adds something extra to just point and shoot. If this was just a FPS it would fail at it, but it really isnt a pure FPS like doom 3...

This game isnt really about science is evil, it is more a comment of communisimish dictatorships. The people made this place so they could do these things without the government... the point is not that we would turn into it, they where like that to begin.

I would have to say you may have to play this game a little more to get something out of it, and make a more complete judgment when you have finished it...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

I did say that I had not finished it, I really don't think having tonics makes it an rpg. I have done zero "role playing" so far. The game is based around the philosophy of Ayn Rand. It really does feel like a crappy corridor shooter to me... I plan on playing it a little more, but the stupid oh no the way is blocked quests are really making that very hard for me.

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I never said it was an rpg, just said it had rpg elements, in the way you can customise your tonics, also how you upgrade different abilities and your weapons.

Yeah the game is way 2 linear, but as you find out, there is apparently a reason for this I agree though after playing sandbox games and open ended rpgs like ADOM, elderscrolls and the such, games like this are a bit of a pain...

Oh any rand really? I should have known that lol, i liked Atlas Shrugged, even though it was slightly contradictory i think, of what i remember... was awhile...anyway off topic

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

Well I played it for another 3 hrs... So go kill Ryan woop de doo I don't even care about atlas and his family... I don't care how evil Ryan supposedly is because I have not met a single character in this game and I have been playing for 6 hrs!

Seriously, if a game has faults I can accept it if the game excels in something else. This game excels at mindless questing and boring dialogue through a radio! Nothing has been explained to me, not why, when, where, who, how. I just run around doing what atlas tells me too. It doesn't even make sense, the only reason people want Adam is because other people want Adam. The constant cuts to ghosts and family flash backs mean nothing.

Seriously, there is nothing rpg is about this, there is nothing fun about this. Six hours with not an ounce of story progression. I mean if it was just blow things up and kill people that would be fine but this game was advertised to have depth and story.

As you can tell I am highly frustrated by this game, I really wish I had saved my money. I could be eating a nice cake right now

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"Nothing has been explained to me, not why, when, where, who, how. I just run around doing what atlas tells me too. It doesn't even make sense, the only reason people want Adam is because other people want Adam. The constant cuts to ghosts and family flash backs mean nothing."

seriously, this will be explained... and I think people are addicited to adam and is also a source of power.
right now your motivation i guess as a character "things are trying to kill me, atlas is trying to help, lets go help him"

I found the story progression in the game to be badly paced aswell, it tends to just give it to you in big chunks...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

You think people are addicted to Adam? you see my point exactly. "think".

Yea staying alive is not enough to make me shoot the same guys in the head for six hours lol. I mean it could just be me, but it seems like a glorified shooter. IGN and Gamespot where like "this is amazing and deep blablabla". Is it? is it just me?

This pretty much sums up my evaluation, in fact I think I view the game in a less positive light.

[Link to www.escapistmagazine.com]

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Well they never said during the game they are addicited to it, but the way they refrence it, it is like a drug. All i know is the splicers are some biological weapon that was used to end the civil war that was in rapture and they went and killed all the normal people that lived there. Due to the other biological attacks that happened during the fighting they ended up becoming biologically dependant on ADAM.

The reason they say it is amazing and deep I think is the story line that un-folds.

As I said, im with you on the game not being that great, but I think you have to finish the game to atleast understand why people think they way they do (atleast in terms of story line). Game play doesnt get much different though, but as I said, the linar quality of the game, motivation etc is actually "explained" in the story line, you really just have to wait...trust me on this... this game doesnt give up its story line secrets easily...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

Fair enough, But you can understand why I don't "want" to grind for hours just for the story?

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Oh yeah, I totally understand! I seriously played the demo and didnt think a whole lot of the game and only got it as it was really cheap and I liked system shock 2. I dont think it is the sort of game I would play over again, nothing to really draw me in for a 2nd time round play.

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

You know. you two are the first i have known to hate bioshock.

You guys can hate it as much as you like. I loved it. Im dead tired of open game worlds that are often like finding needles in haystacks, Im sick to death of massive rpg style games that are more interested in throwing mass amounts of features into gameplay and never actually refining it.

Lets face up to this though... you guys loved fallout and hated bioshock. I hated fallout with deep seded passion but loved bioshock. So maybe we just dig diferent games.

The linear gameplay was a fresh change for me to be honest. I didnt have to spend ages trying to find my way around this massive open space where there wasnt much to see any way. I didnt have to be worried about not looking in every crack and crevice trying to find cool stuff. No no... I could actualy just PLAY a game and be in the action all the time instead of wandering around aimlessly for hours. Fallout anyone? Fable anyone? Oblivion? Sweet merciful i hate oblivian wich is why fallout didnt work for me. Thats no offence to anyone who loved it. It just wasnt for me.

I liked the pace of bioshock. I feel like i got through it quick... maybe because im a casual gamer who just plays it all on easy and barrels on through just to escape life for a few hours. I liked the tonics system where im not scared of leveling up something just incase i level up the wrong thing. i could change it all around later. I liked the storey... its more indepth thn your giving it credit for. I liked the audio tapes system. Because i could listen to as much or as little as i liked. And damnit... it was refined. It did what it did... it didnt boast massive omg things. It just went its own way, simplified things and made it easy for gamers like me to sit and just play.

Btw I liked beating the hell out of that guy with a wrench. and hell I liked that gameplay was stripped back to the days when we did just play a game for the sheer joy of brutally killing things. Am i a freak for just loving beating the hell out of something with a wrench?

I think maybe these days there are two sorts of games, games for the gamers and games for the not so hardcore gamers. Im the not so. I just enjoy it. Its like fable vs oblivian. Heaps of people hate fable... I adore the simplicity of it. So many peeps hate the new prince of persia, I loved just efortlessly jumping around watching this beautiful game progress with this sweet little love storey.

Dont get me wrong. I dig open world games occaisionally when its done well... I mean i acn apprecaite games like GTA for the sheer amounts of detail that go into a game like that. But i hate playing it. Screw driving around in cars all the time running from cops. I just want to play a game and ENJOY it instead of being faced with the painstaking hell of walking across a landscape being shot at constantly.

Its for that reason I hate first person shooters. They peeve me to tears. But bioshock worked on a level that for a casual gamer who just wants to cut the crap, kill some stuff, have a vaguely engaging storey line and feel a bit powerful... it works.

And for the love of god before judging following atlas around so damned harshly... just finish it. You hardly gave it a go without judging it really really badly... and thats clear.

Long storey short... we dont like the same games. hahahaha.

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Gee Greenslade [Link to www.missgee.net]

worst rant ever.

seriously what the hell

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Gee Greenslade [Link to www.missgee.net]

Wow hahah that was intense, I think you hit the nail on the head however, I am not a casual gamer. I find games like bioshock to be shallow and lacking in choice. I have played it for over 6 hrs now and really it is just more of the same. I am not the kind of person who is going to put myself through a 20hr game just so I can comment on it. After all I am not being paid to review games.

I do think that with the introduction of the xbox and the wii a divide has been drawn between gamers. The wii allows mothers and people who considered games to be a nerdy activity to get on board, and the xbox is kinda a halfway place between pc gaming and the wii. However just because you are a casual gamer does not mean that we don't enjoy the same games, just not this one.

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Oh i never said I hate it, that game has alot of good points and I can easily see at what it was trying to do I just didnt think it was THAT GOOD.

If anything what ive been trying to do is get him to play it more so he can get the good parts out of the game instead of just having this big focus on all the things he doesnt like. ..

I would like to reply to the rest of your post but you are OBVIOUSLY missinformed about me and my opinions on games and your rant is obviosuly directed else where and you are just venting it our way, so I will just ignore your psycho blabble

and for your information on a few things.
elderscrolls 4blivion, I dont like this game either...but this is cause im a big fan of the elderscrolls series and this one failed hard... ES2aggerfall was 10000 times better IMO.

What fallout is a good game... fallout 2 is EVEN BETTER!!! fallout 3 is a bit fail..
Fallout 3, was fun to start with (omg how pretty is the landscape and a whole town made from plane parts is full of win). But that wore of quickly and the uglyness of the game poked its head. I didnt love that game at all...I didnt hate it either, It does sit in my "games ive played i thought where ok but will never play again" pile.


GTA: seriously wtf, you must play those games wrong "Btw I liked beating the hell out of that guy with a wrench. and hell I liked that gameplay was stripped back to the days when we did just play a game for the sheer joy of brutally killing things. Am i a freak for just loving beating the hell out of something with a wrench?" that sums up how I play GTA and GTAclones (e.g. saintsrow). this is how they are meant to be played... not whatever you discribed it as... go grab yourslef a sledge hammer, turn on the classical music channel and beat up a hooker, it will make you feel better...trust me... the story lines in the games arnt usually that intereting, it i usually "gang member goes down, gang member comes back, kills everyone". Mind you I havent played gta4 yet, but it is the next on my list

but we get it, you lovee bioshock (it is obvious by your overly romantised and obscured view on the game ) but you didnt help the case of trying to convince him that the game is worth playing, in fact you have probably done the opposite...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

GTA4 is well worth playing, However not on the pc, it is a major resource hog and there are some major issues with the show engine. However it is a pretty good game I played it for about 50 hours before I moved on. Acaroid you seem to love all the oldies, is there anything in the last 5 years that you have enjoyed?

As for gee's rant, I understand we all get passionate about games we love and games we hate, after all bioshock has a 96/100 meta score so I am the minority in this debate.

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I'm hurt by the oldies statement.

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Why the oldies where good, but I have played them and I can't play old games anymore.

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Ive enjoyed piles of games in the last 5 years.
Im a big fan of the front mission series and when I can play the newer games of them I do (as they hardly come out over here in australia). I enjoy robot games, I dont know why, but armoured core games I enjoy (need to get 4 awnser though) but I really wished we got Steel Battalion here in australia .

Armed Assault is a a good game (other than the bugs), but I guess that is because I really like games like that (am happy about getting ARMA2 this week ), in this catagory would be world war 2 online, I did the free 1 month trail for that game and seriously I have not re-newed my subscription because I know it would consume a year of my life

it goes without saying but Psychonauts, I loved growing up playing platformers and with the fun humour and twisted fun of this game is just all about the win

Katamari games ARE SO DAMN FUN... 2 bad their isnt alot of difference from one game to the next, so the first one you play is great, but you dont really need to buy any others lol

Total War games I enjoy also, havent got my hands on empire yet but will soon.

Oh i also have a fun love of surgery simulation games like truma center... I dont know why as most of them have way 2 much plot vs game play...and the plots are usually seriously horrid, but I cant help it, im just fond them fun 2 play...

the orange box I think is such a well rounded game pack, the games by themselves have some holes, but together, so much fun

timesplitters 3 is such a fun game (better than 1 or 2), the game is linear, but has a good co-op but the humour and the awsome achivment activities to unlock stuff is so much fun without a doubt (like shooting zombie monkeys with a shotgun, or inflating alive meat carcasses untill they explode, or hav ing to destory a china shop with a some well aimed bricks)

Dwarf Fortress [Link to www.bay12games.com]
yeah it first came out in 2002, but with the constant development I guess it counts.

ok that is just a few off the top of my head, but I cant really say what it is about certain games that makes me like them... Sometimes it is the story, sometimes the game play.. I like games that have crap or no story as long as other parts of the game shine and draw me in. I find sometimes im really random if a game really clicks with me or not... But one thing I know that really doesnt come into play with me is if a game has good graphics or not (well considering I like ASCII graphics games it is more than obvious). I understand that good graphics do add to a game, and espically atmophere, but just because a game has good graphics doesnt mean it is a good game...

and yes I plan to get GTA4 on 360

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

I really liked shogun total war, I played rome and I felt it was lacking. Most of the other games you mentioned I have never heard of, google time.

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If i remember correctly they did cut some stuff out in rome TW. But I played the empire demo and I was very impressed by the litle details they put into it. That is why I enjoy total war games so much, solid game play (as long as the AI isnt being spastic) and lots of awsome details. it is also good that in empires (i think) they have finally put in multiplayer campaigns, not just single battles, and proper naval fighting!!!

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

Ok cool ill check out the demo, thanks I had kinda given up on the series.

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Yeah, I have a friend who owns it that likes empires probably the most so far (as he is like me and has played them all so far). Just a bit buggy is all, but I think some update patches are on the way, or have already been. but as i havent played the full game im not sure... it is in my list of things to buy lol.

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

Haha yea that list is getting very long for me.

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Yeah im slowly working my way through it, i make sure I dont have 2 many games that i need to finnish at once. So many people I know have piles of games they havent even looked at let alone played... i dont want to be one of those people lol.

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

I've heard ARMA2 is a bit buggy as well. I've seen some trailers and it looks pretty cool though. Hopefully a good patch will fix it.

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[Link to www.3dprevis.com]

Yeah I tried the demo out first ust in case and I havent had any problems with it. Im downloading it off steam right as I type this.... taking so long >.< fingers crossed it is worth the wait

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

why do fallout3 and oblivion get so much crap? i haven't played daggerfall, but i played morrowind, and even though i will admit it's far better than oblivion in terms of just about everything, it was just sheer jaw-dropping-ness of oblivion that i still can't get over. you can ride a damn horse if you want, go for a nice swim, everything looks like real-life, and i thought it was THE ultimate sandbox experience ever. fallout3 was much less grand in scope, (something i did not like about it), and the story was pitiful, but the pretty post-apocalyptic landscape never got boring for me somehow. at some random point, i would see a dirty, huge, sculpture and think to myself, WOW!
fallout1 and 2 were kickass sure, but however immersive the story might be, a point-here-click-there 2d game can never compare.
yes, i realise i sound like the new-age brat gamer (which is odd, coz i've never owned a console, and still don't) who yearns for slick graphics, but you have to give it its due. maybe it's a personal thing.

haven't played bioshock, will have to see what all the fuss is about

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Cogito, Ergo Sum

Yeh, I loved Oblivion and Fallout 3. There was something really enjoyable out just wandering around taking your time doing whatever you liked. I rarely used the fast travel in Oblivion I generally just rode or walked where ever I went. At the same time I like the linear games as well as you generally get a better storyline and a more cinematic experience. I think it comes down to the individaul game really, rather than the genre.

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[Link to www.3dprevis.com]

"I think it comes down to the individual game really, rather than the genre" Agreed.

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amen to that.

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Gee Greenslade [Link to www.missgee.net]

I loved oblivion, until I got past the main story and then I felt the game lost momentum, the graphics while at first appearing to be realistic are actually very bad, the number of huge visual bugs in the game insane, and the AI is just plain retarded, the animations where clunky and the ragdolls where horrible. However I still loved it. Fallout3 was fine until I finished it, the story was awful and it was just a re skinned oblivion.

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Daggerfall is great!! it ws plagued with gliches and bugs which was sad but yeah you have horses etc in that (infact you can even have a flying horse LOL), hell you can buy a shop if you wish (even though it is more like just a fantsy house lol) They just seem to keep stripping the games down.
just to give you an idea that game has literally, thousand towns and villages. It is a bit harder playing now, as it is a very old game so graphics and the techincal side fo the games need alot of refining, But if you can look past it, you will see just the sort of things you are missing in the newer Elderscroll games. I would say the next elderscolls game it would be great for them to take what they did in daggerfall and mix it with the better idea in morrowind and graphics of oblivion/fallout3 and you would easily have a game that any fan of the series would drool over...
Yeah as I said, graphics fallout 3 is damn awsome and I never got sick of watching peoples heads blow to bits in VATS and just explorirng the great post apoc world (I really loved oasis, that was a really great part of the game), but if you put the core of the game into a fallout 2 engine or vice versa (so a fallout3 looking version of fallout2) I think fallout 2 (for me) would come out on top each time. Im just not the sort of person to love a game, just cause it has awsome graphics...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

jesbus. I should never EVER ever write replies early in the morning while working. seriousllly. that rant came on wayyyyy stronger than i remember it sounding. I was trying to reply to all the points made above by you and jamie (theres a fair few...) but failed dismally and came across as defensive. that wasnt the idea, sorry guys.

Oh and when refering to fallout, im talking fallout 3. I dearly want to play one and two but havent had the chance yet. Sorry should have cleared that up.

point was, bioshock apealed to the casual gamers who like me... suck at gaming. linear gameplay had you killing things as a way to get your goal.
GTA...yes beeating the hell out of things is exactly what its all about... BUT for some reason being chased around by cops while killing people in this world that seems so living and alive feels a bit close to home... where as rapture... it cant exist, it doesnt, splicers arent real. I dont feel the least bit morally connected to it. Rapture just sent me on a killing spree on these fictional characters and wasnt ashaimed to do that. It wasnt a choice... it was just simply "this is the game were gonna play... go... "

Im not saying everyone else likes this. Im saying this is what i dig, i recomended bioshock to jamie a couple of weeks ago and bugged him till he got it... so i explained why i was into it in this post where he outlined in detail what he didnt like. killed it? maybe. whatever thats up to jamie.

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Gee Greenslade [Link to www.missgee.net]

LoL yeh i figred it was something like that

Fair enough on the GTA front

Yeah i might recommened bioshock to someone, I know piles of people who would enjoy it...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

dude... you know whats amusing me so much right now... over at devart were having this lovely civil convo about vegan food, and here were having an intense ZOMG over vedio games.

This dude... is knowing eachother FAR TOO LONG.

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Gee Greenslade [Link to www.missgee.net]

You know i was thinking a very similar thing when I replyed on devaint LOL.

But honestly, I think we havent known each other long enough so much fun to be had...
...we really have to hang out more...

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

well. this week im the brokest i have been in my life. but next fortnight im back on the happy horse.

you, shells leon and i should go get food

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Gee Greenslade [Link to www.missgee.net]

Ok that is cool, just say when and we will work it all out

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It is ok, I wouldn't talk to me either...

wow, what a MASSIVE post, about a video game :-O

I'm studying at the moment, and a module involved ethics in video games - BioShock gets mentioned ALL of the time (I've played it lots, but have yet to complete the game myself - I am aware how it ends though) due to the fact that you do get choices, and the main ending involves a moral choice (based on past experiences in game).

I personally loved the game (played on Xbox and PS3) and cant wait for BioShock 2 to come out - graphics etc still look the same, buit I feel that the story may be much more fun (playing as the first ever "big daddy".

I am a casual (but somewhat hardcore in the way that I do own LOTS of consoles and play them LOTS) gamer, so do have a fair amount of oppinions regarding games - mainly graphics though, story doesnt really bother me (some games have AWFUL plots though .. which no level of graphics could rectify) so I'm loving these kind of posts

GTA4, I have to say that its one of the coolest games I've ever played, gfx are amazing, gameplay is awesome (love all GTA games for their "extra" missions, taxi, vigilante etc) but if I'm honest, I didnt quite "get" the idea of being a russian in Liberty City (in a totally non racist way), it seemed odd, when all of the other GTA's have been American's - however, I feel that the connections in game (Roman and other family members mentioned etc) helped to explain it all, and I really felt for Niko as a character

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Damn Walls...so hard to make look nice

The moral choice in bio is good or evil, that is not a very accurate representation of morality.

GTA4: He is a immigrant/refuge, there are a lot of them in the world. They wanted a character that had some personality this time around. I think it was a good choice.

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You really must watch some of zero punctuation's reviews on games. His opinions on the 'moral systems' that games use is right on the mark. In a nutshell its either 'help orphans' or 'stab their dogs', and is basicaly to make you play the game twice to get two different endings.

[Link to www.escapistmagazine.com]

I couldn't play GTA4 very much when I discovered I could run over 5 pedestrians in full view of a cop car and not get chased. And when you do finally get chased by a cop there is the retarded 'area' where the instant you 'get out of range' there are suddenly no cops after you. Where's the full city manhunt for the crazed lunatic driving a stolen car running down old ladies, children, and hot dogvenders???

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Following your maxim of leaving no INVENTORY uncluttered, you receive +1 NIKON D90

Download DAFNOT now! [Link to www.digitalartsfront.com]

lmao, yeah, the police thing in GTA is a bit odd - especially when compared to the likes of "vice city" or "GTA3" when 9as you kind of said) you run over 1 person, even by accident, and you get a swarm of cars after you, which more often than not results in a 5 star frenzy, with helecopters, swat vans and (in some extreme cases) army trucks chasing you down - Good times, me and mates would often compete "lets see how long we can last with 6 stars, haahahaaaa" - gta4, I dont think I've ever even got 6 stars (apart from when you VERY first start the game, and try to go over one of the bridges which is un-opened due to "terrorism"

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Damn Walls...so hard to make look nice

Bioshock is $4.99 on Steam today. I'm tossing up whether to buy it or not. Surely at that price it's worth it?

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[Link to www.3dprevis.com]

Yeah I guess it is worth it for 5 bucks. But I would suggest buying GTA 4 instead.

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Already got that one.

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[Link to www.3dprevis.com]

Well then torchlight? anything but bioshock lol. Na man give it a try I hated it but that is me.

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