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Forum Index - Politics - "The internet is not a truck.

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Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
It-it-it's a series of tubes." Great analogy, Senator Ted Stevens. (/sarcasm)

I need help on this, because I'm embarrassed to say, even I don't completely understand how the internet works; it's a mystery to me at the hardware level. However, I'm pretty sure I understand it better than most people. And I certainly understand why corporations would favor a non-neutral Internet. And that's what I want to talk to you about. Why do corporations want a non-neutral Internet?

Here's the main reason it threatens all the telecoms. One network, like Verizon, has some sites they favor, for what ever reason. Because of this they have the ability to give favored websites an advantage by slowing the connections to other competing websites who are also on their network. They can also pick and choose which sites are dangerous according to company policy; digitalartsfront could be seen as dangerous under their terms... who knows. Also, they can slow the speed of users who subscribe to a competing telecom who are trying to access something on their network.

On television I've heard people argue that a non-neutral network is a safer one, because that lets the telecoms protect you against child pornography and torrent sites. <- Those are two arguments they actually use. Logically, do you really think that moralistic issues are what drive big corporations? Or is there a small chance it might be more related to money and a competitive edge?

And this is my favorite part about the whole thing, because they know people (Americans) are stupid. They call non-net neutrality different things to confuse voters.
Pro Internet Freedom sounds a lot like it would be for a free, neutral, and better internet. Because everyone (Americans) love that word freedom, even if it doesn't actually mean freedom.
The U.S. bill Internet Freedom Act gives corporations the freedom to do what they want, therefore allowing them to compete they way they want. That's f#$king confusing. And, it's even more confusing when you have people who say Internet Freedom when referring to Internet Neutrality. [Link to blog.heritage.org] How are the slow (American) voters suppose to understand this issue, which was already complicated to begin with.

This U.S. American problem effects almost all sites in the world, because you'll have your bandwidth limited to people who live in the US, because you're competing with similar U.S. sites. That sucks. All the sites I like to visit, except for Google, aren't hosted in the U.S. If I suddenly can't access digitalartsfront because of this issue I'll consider moving to another country.

For more clarification, here's ex-Senator Ted Stevens, who's trying to trick Americans in this clip. Unfortunately, people still fall for these same retarded arguments.



+Steve Martin
Moderator
Steve Martin

1 year ago
Well I think I sort of understood until I listened to that bumbling fool. If you're going to do a talk on something at least try and get the terminology right. He comes across as having no idea what the hell he's talking about.

And putting child pornography and torrents together as being something that we need to be protected from is a bit much isn't it? I think looking at images of children being abused is slightly worse than downloading the latest episode of Lost. But I guess that's all just part of the scare campaign.

I think freedom is the most missused word of the 21st Century. Usually when you hear people talking about freedom, they mean the complete opposite. Steve Job's angry email to the guy who questioned his use of the term revolution when describing the iPad. The guy said that revolutions were about freedom, refering to some of the iPad's several big restrictions. Jobs replied with what freedom meant to him and how the iPad offered freedom from porn, ads and programs that trash your battery. Hello Steve, if you don'thave a choice, it's not freedom!
[Link to www.3dprevis.com]

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
I had no idea about the IPad restrictions. Do you have a link to that?
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+Steve Martin
Moderator
Steve Martin

1 year ago
Here's a link to the arilce I read it in.

[Link to www.news.com.au]

And another one that outlines some restrictions:

[Link to www.pcworld.com]
[Link to www.3dprevis.com]

Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
I can't believe how much those things sell. There are already hordes of people in my town with iPads.

The Senator doesn't know what he's talking abut, but it doesn't hurt him as much because most U.S. Americans are ignorant of how the net works. Aside from the net = tubes argument most of what he says is repeated on major news networks, which I find sickening.

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
I have been using the net on a daily basis since 1995 I have never once stumbled across child pornography. They act like searching for "how do I do my homework" will end up leading kids into the arms of a predator. I truly hate this issue.

As always it is about profit. Large media outlets can not find a way to match the revenue streams they once saw in the days of print and television. It is hard to make money on the net because it was never designed with profit in mind. I know this first hand having run this site and others. However just because you can't find a way to make profit does not give you the right to turn the internet into a subscription based system where if you own the networks you can kill any competition you may once have had.

The net is one of the best things to come out of the human race, people can learn things in seconds that they might never have learned 50 years ago.

"If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all." - Noam Chomsky
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Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
Yeah, I didn't even get into the subscription based, double charge, idea that's floating around. That's a whole different ball of wax attached to this one, like an over-sized wart. And what's worse, the old newspaper companies are promoting this idea, because it would help their dying business. So much for fair and balanced.

Right now, the telecoms are operating with out any restrictions which force a neutral network. However, some of the thing mentioned in my post above are already happening.

In the past networks only competed by being faster than the other. Now they're trying to slow things down and, with that, are able to slow speeds in other ways, like focusing on choking competitors. In other words, the telecoms would like to charge as much as possible using as little bandwidth as possible. That's one of the arguments by the ex-Senator "internet tubes" Ted Stevens. He says something about the internet needs to be used again for only small communications not streaming media, which is total crap. Just imagine if the only way you could compete was to develop websites that were catered to a slower internet, like from the 90s.

That's bullshit, but I don't see the average U.S. American getting smarter about this, to see how stupid these arguments are. They freak out when you throw one technical term at them, like 'router'. So, they don't even want to discuss the subject, and just say "if my party thinks it's the way to go then I trust 'em." WHY DON'T YOU JUST READ ABOUT IT, YOU LAZY F*** NUT!

I'm mean, seriously... I wish Google had their own political party.

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
I know I didn't really respond to your point, I just kind start ranting when this subject comes up tongue.gif

As for Google having their own political party, I might vote for them if they pulled out of China and stopped giving personal info to any govt agency that comes knocking.
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Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
Are you referring to them selling statistics or the disclosing of information with a warrant? Or is there something else you're talking about?
I don't think anyone should have a problem with any of those things. If someone is breaking the law, a government entity should be able to disclose any information in any of the offender's online accounts. The law has to be enforced at some level.
Selling statistics is how Google, and just about every other search engine, started off.
Google does not disclose specific information about an individual, like it does when there's a government entity that provides a warrant, when it generates statistics about users.
If you've heard something else, please provide a link to a news source.

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
A warrant is not difficult to obtain especially in this day and age. With the vast amount of data that Google stores on it's servers I find it a little disconcerting that that information can just be handed over to the govt without a fight. In an ideal world it would be fine, but we both know that you don't have to have broken the law these days for the govt to investigate you.

[Link to www.google.com]

The fact that they do business with a country like china really doesn't gel well with their "do no evil" motto.
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Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
The whole world does business with China. I do business with China. I'm sure your bank has produced securities that are owned by someone in China. The difference between your bank and Google is Google isn't secretive about it. Sure, Google makes mistakes, but I see them correcting themselves once they're made aware.

And remove requests are a common feature of any search engine. Google is just more transparent about them, it seems.

In the USA a law has to be broken, at a felony level, with supporting evidence before a warrant can be issued. If there's a mistake in that process, the legality of the warrant can be disputed.

So, if I'm being watched for downloading torrents they have to make sure I don't already own the movies and games I'm downloading. Because if I do the case would be thrown out and lots of money would have been wasted in the whole process.

In other words, I don't see warrants being handed out so easily, but it might be different in your country. I hear it's really easy to get a warrant in China, as per the "better be safe than sorry" clause. tongue.gif

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
Your whole argument was against censorship originally, yet you support Google's actions in china? Maybe I should have been more specific, my whole Google/China issue is based around censorship.
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Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
It was either play ball or pull out. What would you have them do?
China will change their laws. It's morally changing slowly. Google made the smart decision.

The United States isn't China, by the way, and that's what I'm talking about in my original post.

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
I am not in favor of keeping an entire country in the dark in regards to it's history. There has to be a line somewhere between good business and good ethics. The number of continued human rights abuses in that country is astounding. I know they have the largest population on earth, but if companies like Google stood up and said no and pulled out of China it might set an example for the rest. Profit margins and share holders comes second in my mind when human rights come into play.
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Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
Wow. This is a good topic and it deserves its own thread, not hidden at the bottom of this net neutrality thread.

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
Haha yeah we kind of got of topic pretty fast. I say let it go, see what happens.
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+Spiegel
Junior Member
Spiegel

1 year ago
Seems like you're still thinking of companies like Google in the same way of Microsoft when Gates started working in his garage.

I'd say a room filled with expensive neckties is the right image that could give you the idea.

I doubt they change their minds because they care about people....rather they change their minds because otherwise people will turn their back on them.

It's a matter of reputation: if your reputation is good, you earn money. If you soil your reputation doing the wrong thing, you lose lots of money. If you lose lots of money because you do the right thing, you soil your reputation. Welcome in the share market!!
No Gods but Yourself!! >.<

+Jamie
Admin
Jamie

1 year ago
A video that highlights the point you made about the media spinning the issue and confusing the public.


Please support us and post a [Link to www.digitalartsfront.com] on your website.


Anonymous

Anonymous

1 year ago
It's not just fox news. I saw CBS (left-ish media) doing something similar.
This kind of thing hurts to watch. I'm glad this web-caster understands the issue, but fox news will keep spinning this story until all right wing politicians are on the same page, fearful of their constituents retaliating in the polls. I get sick thinking about it.

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